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Comments

Steve Hyde

There appears to be a lack of distinction and identity of VCS organisations, which is adding to the problem of sustainability and cohesion.

National VCO's are now appearing around tables, which they previously did not; snapping up local authority contracts and destroying any work being done by existing local VCO.

Some VCO who are proud of their alturistic ethos, are another tier within the VCS structure not mentioned. These groups provide an excellent local service to their community, but yet wish to remain as a not for profit group.

The definition of what constitutes being a VOLUNTARY and COMMUNITY group, is therefore in need of clarity.

Mark Reading

As well as a clearly accepted definition for Voluntary and Community needing to be agreed, the distinction between the two needs to be underlined. Our organisation has long since recognised the role we play with community groups, and our key partners (predominantly CVS's) play with voluntary groups. There is a distinction between the two that needs to be recognised in any piece of work that seeks to clarify what a voluntary and community group is.

Charles Rapson

Along with a clear distinction and definition between Voluntary orgs, Community groups, Social Enterprise, Community Enterprise and Second Tier support functions, perhaps there needs to be a different set of expectations? Different objectives and outcomes? It may be an acceptance that some groups will not be impacted or participate in ChangeUp. I have to admit I'm not clear myself on how you would structure or manage such complexity but would be interested to hear views of those more experienced.

Mick Smith

Whenever I hear or read that something will have benefits I ask some questions:
What benefits? (other than reducing tax)
Who benefits?
What was wrong with the existing method of doing the job?
How can the VCS make that any different or better?
I also agree with the sentiments made in the first comment regardiung the different sizes of organisations and how those already sustainable have sucked the funding stream dry so the rest of us die of thirst.

Mark Reading

Again the above comments imply ChangeUp was or is a funding stream. It is not, and never should have been viewed as one. If an organisation lacks capacity, then throwing ChangeUp funds at it, in order to be fair is not going to assist in Infrastructure Development, when all that funding will do is prolong the existence of an organisation that is not financially viable.

Peter Williams

I understand the worries about larger organisations increasing their share of funds through winning contracts, but the size of the cake is growing as well as their shares, and as Mark's last comment implies, there is a competitive aspect to all this - some organisations do better than others at getting funds and making their point, growing and surviving - and that applies to small grass-roots organisations as well as the big nationals.
On the definition point, I'm sure we need to be clearer but life isn't tidy - when we say 'community organisation' are we talking about communities of need or of geography? there's no legal defintion to help us - we can distinguish between registered (and unregistered) charities, and companies, and now CICs, but size defintions can be misleading as there are some tiny national orgs as well. That said, there must be defintions out there - I'm sure the Community Alliance has one.
Peter Williams
acting Strategy and Policy Coordinator, Capacitybuilders

carl allen


For the foreseeable future the absolute and comparative value of Third Sector voluntary activities, community activities and community services to public services will remain much greater than the potential value of Third Sectors organisations moving into public service delivery.

1. The public sector can function effectively without the Third Sector delivering statutory public services … the public sector has staff with a social capital mindset, resources of all kinds and access to resources like externally held community intelligence. What problems are they are asking the Third Sector to solve? Is it a funding problem, public sector organisational problem or a service problem or a take up problem or a feeder organisation role or a pension problem …? We should think here about the 5C’s (compare, challenge, consult, compete and cooperate)when we think about going into public service delivery

2. The Third Sector does function effectively without delivering statutory public services

3. The public sector cannot function effectively and economically without the Third Sector delivering voluntary activities and community activities and community services. Indeed all the 5E’s (effectiveness, efficiency, economy, equity and equality) may be in play here.


ACTION And the above are the reasons that Third Sector trustees, leaders and activists must regularly assess the balance between voluntary and community activities and community services versus the Third Sector delivering public services.

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